Jiang Zhuoer is the CEO of ETC Labs, who can become the data layer of ETH? 丨SheKnows interview

From Tuesday to Thursday, at 8:00 every night, Babbit's first community interview column Sheknows teamed up with ETC community and Ethereum eco-operator for three consecutive live broadcasts to comprehensively analyze the “post-Ethernet era” for you to uncover easily. The mystery of Ethereum 2.0.

On July 13, 2019, Vitalik Buterin wrote on the Ethereum research blog that he would consider using the BCH or ETC blockchain as the ETH data layer for short periods. In fact, in May 2018, V God showed better than ETC. This year, V God showed BCH again. Is there a big drama in the BCH community?

On Thursday (July 25th) evening, Babbitt's "8" beauty host Jia Xiaobe and Leipzig BTC.TOP CEO Jiang Zhuoer and ETC Labs CEO Terry Culver brought the theme " ETC, BCH" Who can become the data layer of ETH? "

Guest introduction:

Jiang Zhuoer, CEO of BTC.TOP, Leipzig Mine, graduated from the University of Science and Technology of China, holds a double degree in computer and business administration, a bitcoin evangelist, a miner, and a long-term investor. Jianghu people call "Love Zhuoer's classmates"

Terry Culver, CEO of ETC Labs, oversees the selection, due diligence and investment of more than 20 early projects on the Ether Classic blockchain. In 2013, Terry was appointed Vice President of the School of International and Public Affairs at Columbia University. He has served as an economic and technology policy adviser to the United Nations and to governments in Ghana, Namibia, Kenya, Rwanda, India and Bolivia.

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At the beginning of the event, Jiang Zaller and Terry Culver introduced their latest developments.

Jiang Zhuoer : Recently, in the currency , attention has not been made in the mainstream currency. The market is highly consistent with the expectation of halving the bull market, so it is necessary to buy coins in advance. Mainly 屯BCH , because the BTC congestion problem has not been resolved, Core's proposed congestion solution: Quarantine Witness (SW) and Lightning Network have proved useless, BTC has re-congested after May. Similar congestion occurred in early 2017 before the beginning of 2017. BCH is denominated in BTC and is still at a historical low (3%). Therefore, after the BTC continues to experience super congestion, it can be expected that BCH will have a higher increase.

Terry Culver : I just finished my speech at the 2019 Buidl conference in Seoul, South Korea . At the meeting, I discussed the future of ETC with members of the ETC community and other blockchain project communities. We are currently negotiating with Ethereum to establish a deeper cooperation. Before that, I went to Berlin and Switzerland and saw a lot of developers and investors who were very interested in ETC.

Which is strong in the community and the team?

Xiao Bie: Many people will feel that the ETC community is not very active. Is this true?

Terry Culver : The truth is that the ETC community is very active. Community members have always been passionate and have a wealth of knowledge. In the past, the ETC community was relatively small, but now, due to the power of blockchain technology itself and its huge investment potential, the community is growing very rapidly.

Xiao Bie: Compared with the ETC community, what do you think is the BCH community?

Jiang Zhuoer: Both BCH and ETC are small currencies that have been split from the previous currency. The difference between ETC and ETH is mainly whether the transaction on the blockchain can be modified, that is, whether DAO should be rolled back. The main difference between BCH and BTC is whether it should be expanded according to Nakamoto's plan to accommodate more users. In contrast, the differences between ETC and ETH are mainly disputes of ideas and will not have a direct impact. The BTC does not expand, which will have a direct impact on users. Users must be forced to pay high fees and endure long-term transactions. We often say that wasting someone else's time is tantamount to murder. Therefore, the BCH community has more supporters and a larger scale. Everyone has a sense of mission to promote the development of BCH. This is our most proud part.

Xiao Bie: What is the current ETC technical team?

Terry Culver : Vitalik is also the founder of ETC, so he is also a member of our community. Many of our developers work on important projects for both ETC and ETH networks. Our core development team is made up of a number of blockchain experts who often have years of technical experience. In addition, we have been recruiting the best developers in the industry and working very well with them. We work closely with development teams at other projects, such as the Web 3 development team, ChainSafe Systems, which is also a leader in many of our collaborative teams.

Xiaobe: ETH has slowly changed the consensus mechanism from PoW to PoS. In the new wave of PoS, why is ETC not considered to be converted to PoS?

Terry Culver : We are creating high quality blockchain technology that will soon generate higher value. Whether we choose PoS or PoW is based on research and analysis, not for the pursuit of trends. Our extensive research and market analysis show that there are still many opportunities based on the EW Square PoW blockchain, especially after ETH turned to 2.0. ETC and ETH can complement each other and both parties can benefit from it.

Which BCH and ETC are suitable for the ETH data layer?

Xiaobe: What is the blockchain data storage layer?

Jiang Zaller: In short, when you send a coin, you have a transaction data to store, including from which address to which address, what is the private key signature of the transaction. Where these data are stored, it is called the data layer.

Xiao Bie: When you see Vitalik saying that you might use the BCH or ETC blockchain to do the Ethereum data layer, what do you think?

Terry Culver : This is a great idea. In fact, it is not common to publicly promote other blockchain projects like Vitalik. This means that technologists have seen the value of ETC. This means that they have confidence in ETC and they can understand what is unique about ETC. They also hope to cooperate with us.

Jiang Zaller : The current problem with ETH is that due to the architectural design problem, the data storage capability is weaker than the bitcoin architecture. Therefore, in the case of more transactions, the congestion is serious, so I want to use other public chains to store data. The block design of BCH is very large, with 32M, and it works well in the stress test, but BCH now has few transactions, usually only one or two hundred KB, so there is a large amount of block space remaining.

For example, a shopping mall has just opened, there are not many merchants, there are a lot of shops empty, the mall is willing to engage in promotions, cheap to let merchants settle in, gather popularity. ETH is required to be a merchant in BCH. BCH is welcome. Because you want to use BCH to store data, you have to buy BCH to pay the handling fee. It will become a BCH user, just like many ETH token users, you need to buy ETH. As a fee, BCH welcomes ETH to use BCH as the data layer. The price of the currency is short-term to ask God, and the number of users is long-term. The increase in the number of users is equal to the rise in the price of the currency Xiao Bie: Why did Vitalik propose such a short-term expansion?

Terry Culver : There is nothing wrong with the ETH 2.0 expansion solution. The open team is very professional and is currently making very good progress. I think Vitalik is interested in other ideas (except ETH 2.0) to solve the expansion problem, and he is also interested in the future of ETC.

Jiang Zhuoer : Distributed systems have an impossible triangle, called the distributed system CAP theorem, which refers to Consistency, Availability, and Partition tolerance in a distributed system. The three cannot be both. To put it simply, distributed systems are distributed and have high transaction volumes. Fish and bear's paws cannot be combined. The central system has a high transaction volume. For example, like Alipay, VISA has a high transaction limit.

ETH because of the infrastructure problem, so the total capacity is less than BTC, such as ETH now less than 1M cumulative block every 10 minutes, but the ordinary computer has not run ETH full node, and the ordinary computer runs 1M+ block BTC node No pressure, according to the maximum amount, the average computer running 32M BCH block more than enough.

Vitalik proposed to use the fragmentation method to increase capacity, but the difficulty of the fragmentation method is consistency, which is C, Consistency in CAP. This is a development that challenges the impossible triangle, so it is very difficult, so Vitalik Only a short-term plan is proposed to solve the urgent need of ETH. Xiao Bie: What is the advantage or disadvantage of Vitali's use of BCH or ETC as a data layer of Ethereum?

Jiang Zall : The advantage is that I mentioned that I can increase the number of users for BCH. The downside is that it will increase the amount of data on the BCH chain. However, because Bitcoin's design architecture is advanced, it is possible to delete useless old data by pruning and other methods, which is described in Chapter 7 of the Bitcoin White Paper “Recycling Disk Space”, so I support this.

Xiao Bie: What is the benefit or disadvantage of using E-mail when using BCH or ETC as a data layer of Ethereum?

Terry Culver : This idea has great benefits for ETC. This idea is ambitious and therefore inevitably faces some technical challenges. However, ETH and ETC have a lot in common. The two are "one parent" and the logic is very similar. Technically, they all depend on the Ethereum virtual machine. In contrast, BCH does not have EVM. Our research team is currently analyzing the technical requirements to implement this idea.

Which blockchain is likely to become the data layer?

Xiao Bie: Is there a possibility? In turn, BCH or ETC uses ETH as a data layer?

Terry Culver : Of course it is possible, although we are still in the early stages of studying this idea.

Jiang Zhuoer : Basically impossible. For example, for smart contract codes, every ETH node needs to execute all the smart contract codes in the block, so the node load is high. The BCH node stores the smart contract code stored in the OP_RETURN in the block as static data. It does not need to execute the code, so the node load is low, and it is basically impossible to use ETH or ETC as the data layer instead. However, it is possible for BCH to store the deleted old transaction data in a larger distributed storage system such as IPFS for future reference after pruning. Xiao Bie: If the Ethereum data layer is really selected in the BCH or ETC blockchain 2, who is most likely to be selected? What do you think is the advantage of the chosen person?

Terry Culver : Logically, ETC should be chosen because it has much in common with ETH. Most importantly, both ETC and ETH use Ethereum virtual machines, which BCH does not have.

Jiang Zhuoer : Because the system load of dynamic execution of smart contract code is high, ETH uses other public chains to store data, and can only store data statically. If you store it statically, the advantage is who has a high storage space. BCH still has great advantages in this respect, and Vitalik has always had more friendly exchanges with the BCH community, so I think Vitalik will tend to choose BCH. How to choose specifically, but also consider the ecology, the user to learn the migration costs and other factors, of course, finally ETH is finally possible. Xiao Bie: In addition to BCH and ETC, which blockchain do you think may become the data layer?

Terry Culver : Other blockchains may be used as the Ethereum data layer, but they are very complex to implement. To be successful, the blockchain must be highly technically and culturally compatible and compatible. Both sides must establish very long-term cooperation. ETC is currently the most suitable .

Jiang Zhuoer : IPFS and other specialized decentralized storage chains may become the data layer , and the storage capacity of the decentralized storage chain far exceeds the public chain such as Bitcoin ETH. Because of the public chain such as Bitcoin ETH, each node must store the same data, that is, if there are 10,000 nodes, the block data will be stored 10,000 times, which is not important data, for example A few years ago, the old data was a waste.

The user only cares about the most recent transaction, and the final balance, no one cares who drank coffee in the morning 10 years ago. So in the Bitcoin White Paper Chapter 7, "Recycling Disk Space," Satoshi Nakamoto proposed a method of block pruning to delete old data. But the old data is not reserved at all, it is not good, or find a place to save it.

The decentralized storage chain such as IPFS, the storage principle is different from the public chain such as BTC. The data in IPFS is not stored once for each node, but is divided by several nodes after the data is split. For example, 1 piece of data is stored by 10 nodes, and there is a checksum backup between the nodes. If several of the nodes are damaged, no data loss will occur.

This storage cost is much lower than the 10,000 copies of the data in the public chain. The cost of low cost is that the data may be lost, but it does not matter to the old data that is ready to be pruned. Therefore, after decentralized storage such as IPFS is mature, not only ETH, but BCH may also use IPFS to store deleted old data.

The current problem is that distributed storage such as IPFS, like the ETH fragment, is also a technology that is difficult to develop. Therefore, there is still no mature product available, and developers can only hope to redouble their efforts.

(Terry Culver's speech was translated by Babbitt's younger brother Ye Zewei)