Source: Sina Finance Headlines
"By borrowing this east wind and adding our own efforts, we will continue to exert our strength in the 'blockchain+'. It is not easy to wait for such a day, and we will certainly cherish the situation like this."
This is a statement made by Xiao Feng, the chairman of Shanghai Wanxiang Blockchain Co., Ltd., in an interview with Yu. On November 1, a journalist interviewed Xiao Feng at the conference room on the 21st floor of Wanxiang Building in Lujiazui. Looking out from the floor-to-ceiling windows, the Huangpu River has a panoramic view of autumn.
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For the blockchain practitioners, this fall has less murderousness and more spring-like warmth. On the afternoon of October 24, the Political Bureau of the CPC Central Committee conducted the eighteenth collective study on the status quo and trends of blockchain technology development.
Xiao Feng served as the general manager of Bosera Fund Management Co., Ltd. from 1998 to 2011.
“My cause of interest in blockchain technology is Bitcoin.” Xiao Feng admits that as an asset management practitioner, the huge fluctuations in bitcoin prices from 2012 to 2013 caught his attention.
"After the analysis, I thought that the currency itself is not necessarily reliable, but blockchain technology can be used."
Time has passed, Xiao Feng has been engaged in the blockchain industry for 5 years. In the past five years, the blockchain industry has been ups and downs, and only the people in the game can understand it.
"Can't be so high," Xiao Feng said.
Alliance chain and public chain will eventually come together
澎湃News: Chen Chun, an academician of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, is more optimistic about the alliance chain. We know that you think the public chain can also play a very good role. How do you see the prospects of the public chain and the alliance chain?
Xiao Feng: There is a trend now, that is, the public chain and the alliance chain are close, such as the universal chain BCOS (BlockChain OpenSource), which is used by the three-way blockchain, the micro-bank, and the matrix yuan. We use it for commercial applications. Micro-banks take financial applications. Ma Zhitao, deputy governor of Weizhong Bank, said that he had to be a "public alliance chain" two years ago. In the end, the alliance chain will gradually become more open when the technical conditions permit and the compliance conditions permit.
In fact, Ant Financial also mentioned the "open alliance chain" when it comes to the alliance chain. The alliance chain has its own unique place, but the public chain also has something that only it can achieve. Therefore, many people in the process of practice will slowly discover that the alliance chain will also require openness and publicization.
To a certain extent, the public chain also needs to interface with the existing regulatory system, legal system, and compliance system. A chain that completely does not interface with all systems in the real world cannot have great value.
Hey News: Is the efficiency of the public chain not so high?
Xiao Feng: Yes. This is actually a very old topic of economics, pursuing fairness or pursuing efficiency. When you are over-purchasing efficiency, you have to choose between fairness. If you need people on the entire network to vote by one person and one vote, it will not be efficient. The public chain is one person, one vote, and all the nodes on the whole network can reach the consensus before they can confirm the result. It requires fairness and therefore sacrifices efficiency.
The alliance chain does not need so many people. It is better to choose a few of our approved nodes to reach a consensus. This is obviously faster than reaching consensus on hundreds, thousands, and tens of thousands of strange nodes on a network.
澎湃News: Is Libra also a league chain?
Xiao Feng: It is a chain of alliances, but Libra's white paper says that it will go to the public chain five years later, so we know why the alliance chain and the public chain will eventually come together. Libra seeks to use the public chain to do its basic network after five years. These two technologies will eventually seek a fusion, but to what extent we can't predict it now.
澎湃News: The main difference between the two is the incentive mechanism?
Xiao Feng: There is little difference between the two technical characteristics. The biggest difference between the public chain and the alliance chain is the difference in encryption economics. First on compliance: licensing and non-licensing. That is to say, this network needs to be reviewed before it can be added or not, and everyone can join. The public chain does not need to be reviewed, and can be joined at any time to withdraw at any time, completely determined by the individual.
The second is its incentive mechanism and governance mechanism. The governance mechanism is just mentioned. The private chain is that I have the final say; the alliance chain is that several people have the final say; the public chain is the final decision. The incentive mechanism uses a lot of Token economics, which is relatively complicated.
澎湃News: Is Token mainly providing incentives?
Xiao Feng: It is not simply an incentive mechanism. Token is a very complicated matter. The role played by Token in it is not fully developed yet, and the shape is not complete enough. Digital finance based on the digital economy, and then digital assets, there are stable currencies such as the central bank digital currency representing the function of the currency, and some tokens representing only the payment function. Tokens refer to, for example, the People’s Bank of China issued a legal digital currency, and I used the legal digital currency as a collateral to issue coins in my own chain, which is a token of the central bank’s legal digital currency.
From the digital economy to digital finance to digital currency and digital assets, this is not the end. A lot of things have not yet come out, and the shape is not perfect enough.
Ali, Tencent-level companies can also be made in the blockchain sector.
澎湃News: The Central Political Bureau has collectively studied the blockchain. Just now you also said that the blockchain technology is still at a relatively early stage. How do you see this opportunity?
Xiao Feng: When the Politburo is meeting to learn AI (artificial intelligence), AI is still immature. However, the encouragement and support of the government is one of the reasons for the great development of China's AI.
澎湃News: How to understand the blockchain as an important breakthrough for independent innovation of core technologies?
Xiao Feng: In the Internet era, the world's 20 largest Internet companies are basically concentrated in the United States or China. It can be said that in the Internet era, China is in a leading position in the world, including Internet payment.
In 2011 and 2012, artificial intelligence began to develop. China is currently in the field of artificial intelligence, and its position in the world may be more advanced than the Internet. This is also the government's encouragement to develop. Now some independent AI companies have grown up after the government strongly supported and encouraged artificial intelligence technology. For example, Shangtang Technology, Face++, which is the software, Hikvision, and Dahua, which are hardware, etc., have been able to grow and develop in the past few years, which is inseparable from the strong support of the government. Blockchain technology has emerged. As the highest decision-making level in China, they must see more things than us, and they will be more acutely aware of such an opportunity. Since the Internet and AI have gained more and more favorable competitive positions around the world with the encouragement of the government, why can't the blockchain go on the same path? For so long, everyone is convinced that the blockchain is a revolution in production relations, and it is very similar to the Internet.
Based on the blockchain-based distributed ledger value transfer protocol, we can also make companies like Alibaba and Tencent based on the information transmission protocol in the Internet era.
澎湃News : The Internet has a lot of good applications. Is there no Internet-level application in the blockchain?
Xiao Feng: Starting from the official launch of Bitcoin on January 3, 2009, it is an application of the blockchain.
澎湃News: But there is also a view that this is the only successful application.
Xiao Feng: It can only be said that he does not know much about the blockchain industry. The application of blockchain has been expanding with the development of blockchain technology. In the traditional industry we are familiar with, how to use blockchain technology, this is the "blockchain +". Why should we ignore the application of blockchain technology in supply chain, logistics, deposit and traceability? These 100% already exist. In the financial sector, DeFi (Decentralized Finance, Decentralized Finance) is also rapidly evolving.
澎湃News: Where is the next breakthrough in the blockchain?
Xiao Feng: Where is the breakthrough point? No one knows where all the predictions will break through. Where will it be? It is best not to believe, because no one will know, even if I say it, I guess it, and throwing a dart is one. It’s going on.
澎湃News: This time, the highest level also mentioned that it is necessary to clarify the direction of the main attack. How to understand?
Xiao Feng: My understanding is mainly in three aspects. The first is the technology and standards of the blockchain; the second is the cross-technology integration innovation of the blockchain, which is the integration with artificial intelligence, big data, and the Internet of Things; the third is the application of the blockchain, that is, the block. Chain +", for example, in the application of people's livelihood, smart city, etc. This is also a consensus, not only our consensus, but also a global consensus.
To make the blockchain "optimistic and calm", the stepping pit will step on
澎湃News: How do you plan to lay out the blockchain? Many people now want to invest in the blockchain field.
Xiao Feng: Blockchain technology must be in the process of development. Is the technology now fully mature? No, it may take 5 or even 10 years.
If you are too calm, then the world does not belong to you. If you are too radical, then you may hang up without waiting until dawn. So you have to be here in advance, waiting for the gun to ring. If you are not on the court, what does the firing gun have to do with you? You are in the stands.
At the same time, you have to understand that blockchain technology is not a panacea, not all things can be reconstructed with blockchain in the future. The blockchain must bring the value that the Internet can't bring, otherwise I can use the Internet, why use the blockchain?
For Wanxiang, we must do this at the present stage. First of all, we must believe it, but we can't believe it. The result of fever is definitely a feather. Therefore, we must be optimistic and calm. We must be optimistic and believe that it should be calm. Steps, the stepped pit will step on it.
澎湃News: What layouts have you made?
Xiao Feng: Now the technology is not mature, and the application is also under development, so on the one hand, we have a team to do the underlying technology. We have partnered with our partners and have invested in some teams like matrix elements. We work with them to develop a chain of alliances. Because you have only participated in the development of the underlying technology, you can understand the blockchain in essence. You can't understand what is the bottom and core of the blockchain at the application level. Then you will also be at the application level. Subject to the limitations of the eye.
At the same time, we have a team of 200 people to do the application, currently divided into three, the first is the supply chain + blockchain system, there are already some banks on our platform to issue loans, such as the supply of Jiangxi Bank in our supply The loans issued on the chain financial service platform have exceeded 100 million yuan.
The second is deployed on our Wanxiang auto parts industry chain, which also has financial institutions on which to lend.
The third is the vehicle logistics of our and BAIC Group. Most of the carriers on the expressway are self-employed. On the one hand, it is difficult to provide complete information in line with bank loan standards to apply for loans from banks. On the other hand, the transportation fee has a long account period, and the expenses and costs of various expenses are high. The carrier's cash turnover pressure is relatively high. In response to this industry pain point, Wanxiang Blockchain cooperated with Zhongdu Logistics and DBS Bank of BAIC Group to jointly launch the Chain of Trade Alliance. In the chain of trade, because the key business information in the entire logistics process is on the chain, coupled with the credit transfer of BAIC Group, when these carriers have the capital needs, they can use the business assets in the chain to initiate loans to the bank. And loan interest is usually below 10%. Because the chain of operations is closed-loop, banks can rest assured that small carriers will lend. As of September 2019, the amount of financing incurred in the chain has reached tens of millions of yuan.
澎湃News: Mainly still solve the credit problem.
Xiao Feng: Yes, the blockchain uses a set of mathematical methods to help you build a trust, and we can conclude a deal. We have built the trust of banks and truck drivers very low at this cost, and truck drivers can also get a good financial service, which is already on production.
Still others have done proof of concept (POC) to prove the value of using blockchain technology. There are also some conceptual designs.
In short, from the application point of view, it is divided into three major categories, which have been produced, completed POC, and completed conceptual design. In fact, we have more than a dozen applications in these three categories.
It’s hard to do business without doing the underlying technology.
澎湃News: Does Wanxiang consider the profit model in the process of laying out the blockchain?
Xiao Feng: There is a profit model, we have a fee. We do this system and provide blockchain applications. Any transaction happens, we also have a fee, just that the charge is very low. Because we develop an alliance chain and then carry the application on the alliance chain, its marginal cost is very low.
澎湃News: The main investment is talent?
Xiao Feng: It is mainly the cost of people. Because we don't need to buy machines and equipment. I have been doing it for five years. I think this is a good business, with marginal costs diminishing and even approaching zero.
澎湃News: Does this mean that property rights protection is also very important, what should I do if this thing is to be copied?
Xiao Feng: Making money is not about earning the bottom technology. Although the underlying technology is the most time-consuming and man-made, everyone is open source, and our alliance chain is also open source.
Where do you earn money? You have a deep understanding of blockchain technology, and you can create new models in business, where you make money, not on the underlying technology. We don't charge for the underlying technology, and anyone can use it because we are already open source. If someone says that my alliance chain or public chain is not open source, I believe it has no vitality.
Hey news: I hope more and more people use your chain?
Xiao Feng: More people are involved in business. Open source is a chain that you trust and don't trust me. You show all the code to others, and others are interested, just dare to believe you. If the Bitcoin system is not open source, who can trust Bitcoin?
After open source, anyone can test whether my technology and system are safe, is it robust, right? The business purpose of open source is to let more people use my chain, but everyone will use it, and it will not be of any benefit to me because I will not charge any fees.
澎湃News: What is the competition in the blockchain and what is the competition?
Xiao Feng: The underlying technology is not a competition. Everyone will open source. Open source is not a competition. At most, it is a competition.
澎湃News: In other words, what you just said, doing the underlying technology helps to better understand the nature of the blockchain.
Xiao Feng: Of course, since the blockchain is used to transform production relations and reconstruct business logic, then you must have a deep understanding of technology and the underlying things. The way to get a deep understanding is to participate.
National and international standards are under discussion
澎湃News: Domestically, the alliance chain is highly respected. The universal blockchain also makes a coalition chain. What kind of mature model will the future alliance chain form?
Xiao Feng: I believe that since it is a chain of alliances, there will be no more than one chain.
Big companies, small companies, everyone has their own alliance chain, many companies have developed a chain of alliances, everyone is promoting, I as a developer also want others to use mine. There are two types of alliance chain development, one is pure technology company development alliance chain, one is similar to Wanxiang, Ali, Tencent, etc. It has its own application scenarios, and develops the alliance chain for itself and the ecological partners.
澎湃News: Does this involve industry standards?
Xiao Feng: Actually, in 2016, China Electronics Technology Standardization Research Institute of the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology began to organize industry professionals to write blockchain technical standards. Later, some blockchain standards were introduced successively, and we almost all participated. But so far, there are only group standards and yard standards, and there are no industry standards and national standards. National standards and international standards are under discussion. The ISO standard ISO has a blockchain standard group, and it has been established for more than two years, but it has not yet officially released its own blockchain standard. This can't be anxious, and the technology is still not mature. Constantly chasing technology, I believe that the future will form industry standards as technology matures.
The Blockchain Reference Architecture under the auspices of the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology was actually submitted to the International Organization for Standardization and stored in its database. In the end, the International Organization for Standardization may integrate the results of everyone and introduce an international standard, but it will not be mandatory.
Blockchain finance can only appear after the “blockchain+” is completed.
澎湃News: How do you see the development prospects of the blockchain in the financial sector?
Xiao Feng: There is definitely a huge space, but not for the coins, funds, etc.
I have always had a metaphor. The gun is in the hands of drug dealers to kill people and goods. It is used to protect the country and defend the country. The blockchain is the gun. You can't kill a gun with a criminal, so you can ban the gun and ban the gun for the defending country. Blockchain technology is unstoppable and indivisible in the financial sector. There is absolute room for development, but it must be compliant.
Hey News: Is it like Libra?
Xiao Feng: In fact, it is much wider than it, but it will only happen after the “blockchain+”. Why are you behind the "blockchain+"? Because of the real application scenarios that digital currency will have after the completion of the “blockchain+”, digital assets will be formed.
Therefore, after the completion of the “blockchain+”, the central bank will issue digital currency, and the tokens based on the central bank’s digital currency will also have real and valuable usage scenarios. Under this usage scenario, a lot of investable tools based on blockchain will come out, that is, digital assets. This development step can not be saved, save it, then what is the real role and use, and those "devils and ghosts" will come out. But it can't be because everything is "devil and ghost" now, everything is cut across the board.
澎湃News: Some people say that the next 50 years is based on the value of the blockchain Internet. What do you think?
Xiao Feng: I agree with this point of view, but I have to look at it in a historical process. Human society began with the Internet and gradually digitized. In this digital process, there are many digital technical tools to help humans complete digital migration.
Three years ago, I wrote an article "Digital Migration of Human Society." We reconstruct a digital world where everyone is moving to the digital world and spending more time in the digital space. In the digital relationship, everyone can be a friend on WeChat. I can't meet for five years, but I can still understand you very well. These tools without digitalization can't be done.
The blockchain is also one of many digital tools. AI, the Internet of Things, the Internet, cloud computing, and blockchain are all digital tools that help us build a digital world and complete digital migration.
Every digital tool has its own unique features. The Internet of Things and the Internet have helped us bring together big data in the cheapest way, driving the emergence of new Internet-based businesses because the costs are low enough. Artificial intelligence processes this data at a lower cost, and cloud computing uses a very good way to store and calculate this data. The blockchain builds a value Internet that can transform data into an asset. Only this technology can make data and digital assets.
澎湃News: Nowadays, many of our behavioral data are actually in the hands of Internet giants, who use them to earn various incomes. With blockchain technology, can we personally enjoy the benefits of our own data?
Xiao Feng: Of course, the blockchain protects your data well, and your data can be well-validated through the blockchain. To financialize, you must first confirm that this property right is yours. Now there is no blockchain technology on the Internet. It is difficult to confirm that your data is yours.