Ten experts took turns to accept Meng Yan's sharp question: How many points do you give to the development of the current blockchain?

Since 2018, with the high-profile layout of blockchains such as Tencent and Ant Financial, the public's awareness of the blockchain has deepened. In particular, Tencent, the blockchain electronic invoices launched by the industry has become an explosion of blockchain applications in the industry. The blockchain is no longer stuck in the technical concept, but is accelerating integration with real estate.

On the other hand, we also noticed that the integration of blockchain and industry is still very primitive, and it has not completely "flyed into the homes of ordinary people." Many people in the outside world still have such doubts: what can be done by blockchains, What to do, what is the value.

Faced with these questions, on October 19th, at the first digital transformation strategy meeting of Tencent, representatives from traditional industries such as courts, investment institutions, financial institutions, and representatives of Internet companies such as Tencent and Weizhong Bank revolved around “industrial areas”. The road to the break of the blockchain has shared its own thinking.

At the roundtable forum hosted by Meng Yan, the vice president of the Digital Assets Institute, every question was thrown out and hit the pain point: How many points do you give to the current blockchain development? What is the true demand for blockchain? How to pull the government into a person? Does the blockchain need idealism?

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According to the guest's answer, Babbitt has compiled a wonderful viewpoint and shared it with you. The core points are as follows:

1) Blockchain breaks, need to have a consensus, and then have patience, and finally a single breakthrough.

2) The problem that the blockchain can solve must be in line with the commercial nature and conform to the business rules. Whether there is any pain point, whether it can be solved by blockchain, whether it can reduce the cost and increase efficiency, and whether the partner is a community of interests. These four points can be satisfied, which is the real demand of the blockchain.

3) The financial industry is a natural concentration and centralization. It is a regulated industry. If the industry is decentralized, it is a pseudo-demand.

4) If the blockchain is an infrastructure for the digital economy, it is a real need. However, from the perspective of traditional industries, no profit point is a pseudo-demand.

5) The blockchain can't be used to fight the world. It has to solve the problem and land, and it must be combined with ABCD and the Internet of Things. But ABCD is not equally divided, you have to have a core. Blockchain is the core because it solves the fundamental problem of production relations.

6) The blockchain must also comply with financial-level supervision, and must consider various regulatory requirements and security guarantees.

7) The future business form is a distributed business, and the blockchain is an important infrastructure to support distributed commerce.

The following is the content of the live dialogue (with deletion):

First, how many points do you give to the blockchain?

Meng Yan: Do a small survey. If you let everyone rate one point, from 1 point to 10 points, 1 point means there is not much confidence or recognition for its future or use. 10 points means extremely confident and extremely confident that it can Transform the world, transform the society, and transform the future. What is the score for the future of the blockchain?

Wang Wei , Dean of Yushan Court, Ma'anshan, Anhui:

I rate 10 points. I think the blockchain is a very important path to change our lives and society in the future.

Cai Weige, head of Tencent Virtual Bank Blockchain :

I rate 9 points and leave 1 point, otherwise it is too impetuous.

CEO of Shenzhen Minke Technology Co., Ltd. Cao Zili :

7 points – 8 points, the reason is that this is a new thing, the market still has doubts, not a perfect score for the time being.

Zhou Xianghong , Director of the Smart City Institute of School of Economics and Management, Tongji University:

I played 7 points. I don't think technology is omnipotent. It can only solve part of it. According to my favorite music, Beethoven's "Quartet", it should be "Technology + Process + System + Values". It is possible to push it to a perfect state, so I played 7 points.

Wu Fei , a blockchain architect and senior researcher at Tencent Cloud:

9 points. Buddhism has a saying that it can't be too complete, and always has to leave one point.

Li Dapeng , CEO of Qingdao United Financial Assets Trading Center:

I played 8 points.

Duan Xiaoguang, Chairman of Jiangsu Jinmao Investment Management Co., Ltd.:

I scored 13 points. The blockchain's momentum is not the same as the rise of technology in history. It involves not only technical issues, but also productivity, production materials, and all aspects of production relations, so it exceeds 10 points.

Fan Ruibin , General Manager of Distributed Business of Weizhong Bank:

The status quo is 6 points and the future is 12 points. I think people tend to overestimate the short-term value of a great thing, and at the same time tend to lag its long-term value. I am honored to have experienced the entire industry of mobile Internet in Tencent from birth to germination to peak. I think the current blockchain stage is very similar to the mobile Internet 15 years ago, and we are very optimistic about its future.

Wu Pingping , Director of Tencent Legal Innovation Center:

I played 9.9 points and the remaining 0.1 points were paid to insurance.

Hong Yuhua , President Assistant of Golden Wheel Blue Sea Co., Ltd.:

I also scored 9 points, which is more optimistic about the future direction of the value Internet.

Second, what is the true demand for blockchain?

Meng Yan: Many people in the society say that the issues discussed are really solved by the blockchain, and what are the blockchains that can be solved but cannot be solved. Each guest has deep insights in their respective fields. Can you answer them quickly? What are the real needs and pseudo-demands of this industry?

Wang Wei :

Justice and efficiency, the blockchain ultimately solves the justice and efficiency of the judiciary.

Cai Weige :

The problem that the final blockchain can solve must be in line with the nature of the business and in line with business rules. I have said many times, whether there is any pain point, whether it can be solved by blockchain, whether it can reduce costs and increase efficiency, whether the partner is a community of interests , these four points can be satisfied, I think it is the true meaning of the blockchain. Demand, otherwise it is only a little more efficient, it is really just a icing on the cake. We have done a lot of things, like invoices and deposits, which are projects that have enough consideration in these principles.

Cao Zili :

I am engaged in the securities IT industry. If you really need it, you can use the deposit certificate. Because financial data needs to save data, some need to be public. Therefore, we have business scenarios that need to be preserved and not tamperable .

When it comes to pseudo-demand, the financial industry is a natural concentration and centralization. It is a regulated industry. If the industry is decentralized, many users are not very recognized , so our business scenario is basically cut from the perspective of deposit. This business is good. Zhou Xianghong :

We mainly do To G, to help them land the scene, mainly involved in three aspects (new retail, traceability, smart community), intellectual property transactions are exploring.

With regard to false propositions and real needs, we have followed four cases in two different places in Shanghai, Zhejiang, Fujian and other places. There are three aspects: First, before the chain, the government will ask me if I need to go on the chain? What are the benefits of winding? Will there be any problem? Second, after going on the chain, he will ask if this technology can really achieve transparency in this process? Third, after the winding, can we produce a good standardization and modular trading.

To sum up, I think the three words of the To G end that have been answered are: whether there is any benefit, no effect, no efficiency . Individuals have been very optimistic about this prospect. The important part of the future blockchain is the true demand and true proposition. Wu Fei :

"Orange is born in Huainan, and orange is in Huaibei." In the financial field I am engaged in, I can see from the perspective of industrial development that Dong Bo of the Hong Kong Stock Exchange also mentioned that our biggest problem is how to infiltrate the industry . We can look at the complete business closed loop, which consists of three elements: technology, finance, and industry. In the past, these three were separated. The financial industry may have a scientific background and a financial background, but without an industrial background, industrial companies lack technological and financial backgrounds. How do you combine them? The blockchain acts as a "connector." The ability of the economics of the pass and the deposits we are currently doing are all about getting through the relationship.

In planning, many times we have to solve the problem of trust in the chain, but the blockchain solves the ability of chain and certificate, and can not solve the problem under the chain. We need to sort out from the business level, to achieve self-consistency between theory and scene, including the self-organization of the overall industry. I think this is the biggest challenge we are facing and the place we want to work hard. Li Dapeng :

If the blockchain is an infrastructure for the digital economy, it is a real need . Blockchain practitioners are pushing the society forward, which is definitely a real need. However, from the experience of traditional industries, it is a pseudo-demand.

why? Traditional industries should use the blockchain and immediately ask where the profitability of the blockchain is. From the perspective of traditional industries, no profit point is a pseudo-demand . From the point of view of the digital economy, we cannot look at it with the standards of today's traditional industries. The digital economy and the future of the CIS economy are still only being discussed today. The technology has matured. After this technology matures, is it really a real demand for everyone today? Actually not. I believe that after the development of the digital economy and the general public economy, the blockchain is not a problem and will become a part of life, but today is not. Duan Xiaoguang :

All needs are market needs, but fundamentally human needs and human needs. From the perspective of human nature, the blockchain is an absolutely real demand, which is mainly reflected in two aspects: trust and freedom . Trust is the foundation of human beings, the cornerstone of finance, and the development of human society. The construction of WeChat circle of friends is based on trust. Freedom is always the goal of human pursuit. Blockchain is a giant machine and infrastructure that uses technology to construct unconditional trust. Its cryptographic applications, peer-to-peer transactions, decentralized design, and the adoption of smart contracts have all improved human freedom. I just evaluated the blockchain to 13 points, 10 is from trust, no trust, people will not be, people will not be class; 3 is the essence of freedom from it, 3 things, will bring growth of production materials, productivity The upgrading and the reconstruction of the production relationship are absolutely real requirements.

Fan Ruibin :

From two perspectives, first, from the current industrial ecology. When we made the blockchain, we chose a special route. We worked with many partners on open source projects and joined many partners to build an open source ecosystem. This is a development path . This development path gives us an advantage in that we can reach out to all areas of the blockchain application. Judging from the current results, in the past few years, we have been able to see judicial deposits, copyrights, supply chains, Internet of Things, smart cities, warehouse receipts, pledges, finance, etc., and the development of blockchains in many subdivisions is coming. The better, there are more and more applications, more and more companies, more and more projects, more and more orders, and some companies can make money, even get investment, better. . This is the current situation. So I think the demand for blockchain is getting more and more witnessed.

From another point of view, many things should be viewed from the perspective of development. If we pull back a few years ago, the situation is not too ideal. We always felt that there was a large frozen soil in the chain of alliances. Where can we melt first? Breaking the ice, where do you first grow new green shoots? From the development to the present stage, more and more subdivisions have grown and become better and better . I just scored 6 points for the status quo just now. It has something to do with this. Although today's development is still not so prosperous, it is not so maddening, but we are seeing more and more real needs emerging, pushing the industry to develop more and more healthy. Wu Pingping :

This is a very good question. If I don't understand the mistake, Ms. Meng asks which scenes and cases at this stage are true needs, and which scenarios and cases are pseudo-needs. In the judicial field, such as judicial deposit and intellectual property monitoring, rights protection is a real demand , and it is indeed combined with the characteristics of the blockchain, and it has also been recognized by the judiciary.

Hong Yuhua :

We are a blockchain warehouse order system for the steel trade industry. From the practice, we can see that if the blockchain injects trust into the industry, it can bring efficiency to the entire industry, broaden financing channels, and even expand the industry upstream and downstream. They all play a positive role, so I think this is a real demand.

If the interests of the various parties are not taken into account in the design process, this may be a pseudo-demand because there is no such incentive to maintain a common ledger.

3. How to advance the digitalization of assets?

Meng Yan: Ask Li Dapeng Li, I know that you have a lot of research on asset digitization. The digitization of assets is also a problem that we are particularly concerned about now. If assets can be digitized, many problems can be greatly advanced. However, at present, this issue is frank, and it is also stuck, and it is not moving forward. I want to hear your opinion. Where is this bureau, how can it be broken? Can you give some comments?

Li Dapeng :

The core of asset digitization is the determination of power. One of the benefits of the blockchain is credibility. We call digital integrity. From the right of property to the conversion of digital rights, it is not a matter of saying what we say. It is a very clear process of determining the rights. I am from a futures exchange. I know that these large deliveries are not even tradeable if they are not confirmed. For us, the warehouse receipts are basically digital, but why can't I completely be a digital asset? It is because the process of confirming power has not been fully realized .

The digital assets we talk about are equivalent to money, and we must consider how to ensure its authenticity, reliability and value. There is a process for digital assets. Do you think that the transition from property rights to number rights is over? No, it is actually the whole life cycle process. Returning from the digital world to the physical world, what do you really want to consume? The whole process is a very complicated process. If this matter is to be resolved, our digital economy and the CIS economy will naturally come. Meng Yan: I would like to ask the legal expert Wu Zong, it is particularly desirable to have legal evidence and legal significance in the future. What are the expectations of the legal blockchain, can you give a timetable? What expectations are too high for the foreseeable future?

Wu Pingping :

In the field of intellectual property, I can still give a rough expectation. The confirmation of intellectual property rights and transactions in the blockchain can be protected and recognized by the judiciary. I think this can be done next year . Because our "to the letter chain" has already designed the product. We are now based on this model of letter-chain design. Every day, there are 200,000 works on the chain, which is authenticated by digital certificates, and then approved by the judiciary. This logic has already run through. It is optimistic that there will be no problem with the right to intellectual property rights at the end of this year or next year.

Fourth, how to pull the government into a person?

Meng Yan: I think the Chinese government's attitude towards the blockchain is really dramatic. If you want to refuse to welcome it, some places are more blocked, and some places are sparse. It seems that they have been pushed away in recent months. You have to deal with the government more, give us a trick, how to pull the government to become a person?

Zhou Xianghong :

I think the government is originally a person. You just mentioned that the technology of the blockchain is still welcoming and entangled. We opened a course in the classroom to explain this matter from the history of the millennium, and everything is down, only the transaction is high. All areas of circulation, as long as the issue of money is involved, must be the highest standard, the highest security, the highest audit, because it is tied to the state's political power and the country's borders. Decentralization is mentioned here, and in some cases it may challenge its boundaries. In the Northern Song Dynasty, the earliest paper currency was the Jiaozi. At the time of the Chuanhan Plain, it was not public, but private. The circulation was accepted to a certain extent by the Northern Song Dynasty. During this time, everyone has been discussing the Northern Song Dynasty. The Northern Song Dynasty was the first in the world in terms of GDP.

I think the second explanation is that if you realize that the future of digital assets, digital security and other transactions is the trend of the times, if you do not pre-lay the layout, you may shake the security aspect of the physical world, you will definitely preempt the layout and quickly form such a process.

5. Does the blockchain need to invest in idealism?

Meng Yan: You are investing, but in the last round of responses, you have a strong sense of idealism. Would you like to ask how your idealism and investment practice are combined? How will your investment philosophy be influenced by idealism in the blockchain field?

Duan Xiaoguang :

I am investing, but I always think that modern capital can no longer be the 18th century. Every pore is stained with blood and dirt. It should be placed in the sun and bring its own warmth, so I give my company certain values. It is to be a capital poet, a venture capitalist, to combine idealism and realism in the field of investment.

Speaking of the blockchain technology as the investment target of the digital economy era, I don't think that the blockchain can be used to protect the world. In the end, it must solve the real problems and the scenes must be combined with ABCD and the Internet of Things and other technologies to form a technical community. , solve problems together. But ABCD is not equally divided, you have to have a core. Who is the core? The blockchain must be . Because it solves the infrastructure of the digital economy and it hits the fundamental problem of production relations.

As for the blockchain technology, there is no scene. I think this is not true. The first scene it was born is a big success. Isn’t it bitcoin? There is still a technology that makes everyone so dazzling when they come out, and mobilizes everything under the human nature. It is only said that the dimension of the scene of the blockchain is too high, which makes people dizzy. At present, it must be reduced in dimension and reduced to the real economy. There are many real scenes that need to be developed with the spirit of artisans.

We Jinmao Investment made China's first blockchain equity investment fund officially filed and raised and fully operational. The first phase has been fully invested in half a year, and 7 companies have been invested, all of which are blockchain+type enterprises. . These enterprises involve various aspects of government service, financial technology, public utilities, and industrial Internet. They all have their own core technologies, and they are included in the blockchain information service registration number of the network information office. The business conditions are very good, and there are 2 enterprises. Preparing for the board. One of them is to do industrial safety. It has opened up the channels for chemical companies and insurance with the safe depository, traceability and safe and credible environment. Insurance originally did not deal with chemical industry, and was not willing to do chemical industry property insurance products. However, due to the intervention of blockchain technology, the establishment of a safe and credible environment and the establishment of PaaS, insurance companies actively participated in and made related products. Benefit. At present, this company is being invited to participate in the formulation of the national smart chemical park standard, which should have a profit of about 100 million this year . The scenes and applications of the blockchain are available in various industries and regions. The demand is very large, especially in the areas of government services, financial technology, and industrial Internet. From ToG, ToB to ToC, and finally to digital currency. . The future has come, Libra has surfaced, it is a bigger scene, and we have to make a difference in trying to open up China.

6. Will the blockchain revolutionize the life of the bank?

Meng Yan: I would like to ask Fan Zong of Weizhong Bank. Many people think that the blockchain should subvert the bank. Now it is found that banks, especially Weizhong Bank, are running faster than anyone else in the application blockchain. Can you introduce the bank? The idea of ​​blockchain? How do you think about the blockchain, is it a friend or an enemy? Still a friend in the short term, sooner or later, the life of the bank?

Fan Ruibin :

Share with us some of our thoughts on the blockchain. Weizhong Bank has always had some thoughts, practices and judgments on the transformation of its future business form . We believe that the future business form is a distributed business . Of course, we don't think that distributed business packages are in the world. We have revolutionized or replaced all business forms. We believe that the future should be a more diversified form. Distributed business must be a very distinctive one. This is Our judgment on the future business form.

Back to the blockchain, we believe that the blockchain is an important infrastructure to support distributed commerce . Therefore, Weizhong was only established in 2015, and began to form a team to do blockchain-related work. A big background and reflections. When we really landed, we chose a more unique path. For Weizhong, we are doing blockchain application on the one hand, and partners are also doing application. At the same time, we are very focused on doing another thing, that is, combining many partners to make blockchain open source ecosystem. . In 2017, we made the open source of the blockchain that we had done before, and we worked together as partners to create an open source ecosystem and cooperate with hundreds of companies. Just said that playing 12 points, our confidence comes from contacting a relatively large number of samples or observed examples, and it involves various industries and various sub-areas. We can see that many segments are slowly developing and growing. This gives me a lot of confidence.

Why does MicroBank do this? In addition to doing blockchain applications to solve their own practical problems, we feel that in the early days of an industry development, many companies have a responsibility to promote the development of this industry in a way that suits them . This is not to do Lei Feng, nor is it a purely verbal oral slogan. This really will benefit every participant in the industry. After all, the industry can develop well and every practitioner can get the most benefit. This is the main idea we are doing now in the blockchain.

7. What are the advantages of BaaS?

Meng Yan: Asking Mr. Wu of Tencent Cloud, cloud has always been a controversial way about the deployment of blockchain. It is generally believed that different nodes of the blockchain should cross the trust boundary, that is, different trust entities hold each other. Nodes, so that makes sense, otherwise it is equivalent to the traditional distributed computing system is managed and saved by a principal. You are doing the Tencent cloud blockchain, especially the architecture of BaaS. What do you think is the advantage of using an infrastructure such as a cloud to support a blockchain? How to deal with the problem I just said, will it still be an infrastructure controlled by a trusting subject or a stakeholder?

Wu Fei :

This problem is very good, and indeed some friends use a single cloud main body to deploy. However, Tencent Cloud's TBaaS is not the case. We adhere to the principle of openness and open source, and provide a heterogeneous network BaaS system across clouds, networks, and domains. In the impression of most of us, the public chain should be relatively open and equal. We believe that the public chain is the decentralized model in the true sense. But after we have conducted in-depth research, many public chains, especially the public chain of EOS, take the most of the nodes on the chain to run on cloud services . But as long as the overall guarantee is deployed on different clouds, such as Amazon Cloud, Microsoft Cloud, Google Cloud… and some nodes are built in the self-built computer room, we can still think that it is distributed and does not affect the principle of decentralization.

Also from the perspective of the cloud on the blockchain node, this is a good thing. We have turned the blockchain into a part of the cloud service, as convenient as using tap water and electricity in our lives, reducing the cost of construction and building. time.

Back to the alliance chain and the BaaS issue, the blockchain must also meet the financial-level regulatory requirements , because I am doing financial cloud, we must consider the various regulatory requirements and security guarantees, we are deploying the cloud foundation of the blockchain. When it comes to facilities, it is necessary to consider its multi-centeredness, to have its own self-built computer room and to deploy it in different cloud services. It seems simple, but there is a lot of work to do. Because I am engaged in technology, I know that there are many compliance requirements to be met. For example, the blockchain is a P2P network. To get through the communication of many nodes, it is necessary to open a lot of network data ports. In financial supervision, it is not allowed to do this, and there is no way to do supervision. Therefore, we have done a lot of work here. One is to meet the needs of financial supervision, and the other is to apply technology to the current system more safely and better. among.

Eight, what else is needed to break the road?

Meng Yan: The last question was handed over to Cai Yi Ge. Today, our topic is a broken game. What do you think is the key to breaking the road?

Cai Weige :

Today, the sharing of the guests is relatively dry, I am listening to the attitude of learning. As a blockchain practitioner, when I was doing the blockchain in 2017, our team repeatedly thought about what problems the blockchain could solve, what value it had, and what the future prospects were . This mental journey is not so easy. We chose to start from the scene and make some effective scenes from 0 to 1 to prove that it is valuable. We also especially admire the practice of Wei Fan, and choose to do the ecology. This is very difficult. I will be an open source community in the commercial system, and I will not see any return in the short term. Anyway, such a discussion today has greatly increased my confidence. We have discussed a lot of difficulties, but I feel that many guests have a consensus on the blockchain itself to solve our social trust.

Back to the broken road, I think the first point is the consensus. Everyone has a consensus on the blockchain to solve the trust problem. I think this is very important. Everyone has a consensus to break the game. There is no consensus to achieve the first step.

The second point is that the areas that are cut into are all aspects. The needs of different fields are different, and the things to be solved are different. As mentioned in the paragraph, Bitcoin is the biggest success of the blockchain, becoming the first decentralized currency in human history without government endorsement. But when I walked into a larger field, I still found that there are many difficulties that need to be solved. I think this is a psychological preparation. There may be some areas where temporary conditions are not yet available. Like data assetization, we found that many things are still not mature after discussion , but it does not mean that this direction is wrong. We really have no way to break through. Will the society mature as the development of society? I feel that I have to be patient.

Some areas will break through faster, such as the legal deposit certificate , this thing must be able to land earlier, because the efficiency and cost of the judiciary are good. It is a good thing to break through the bureaucracy in these areas. In turn, it is a good thing for the blockchain industry to be promoted. We need to have good money, and good money will drive the healthy development of the whole industry. I think this is the road to the future development of the blockchain. .

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