Interview with Babbitt | Connect blockchain technology to 12 provincial courts, how does Zhongjing Tianping use technology to drive the future of law?

The rich man Lin Tai’s wedding season is approaching, and the prospective bride is dead in the underground parking lot. Lin Tai’s daughter has become the biggest suspect. Lin Tai spares no expense to hire the top domestic lawyers to defend the single woman. The defense process was confusing, ups and downs, and on the eve of the trial, an image of unknown source flowed out, showing that Lin Tai was the real murderer, so he was arrested and imprisoned. However, the defense lawyer found out that there was something wrong with it. Lin Tai was trying to protect and educate her daughter by taking a fake video and taking the crime to himself.

This is the plot of the movie "The Eyes of the Whole People". On the one hand, Lin Tai, who plays Sun Honglei's image of her daughter's deep feelings, left a deep impression on me. On the other hand, it is unacceptable that the evidence can be forged and the judicial can be deceived.

If so, can it be faked in the real world to make such photos, sound recordings, and even video evidence?

At one event, I was exposed to the blockchain-based judicial electronic evidence platform, and I also had a deeper understanding of the judicial determination of electronic evidence. This made me realize that the adoption of electronic data is not so simple. In fact, the identification of electronic evidence has the principle of “three genders”, which are authenticity, legitimacy and relevance. The plot described in the film does not conform to the principle of authenticity, nor does it conform to the principle of legality.

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What are the common misunderstandings in the judicial determination of electronic evidence? How does blockchain technology empower the judiciary? What is the acceptance of blockchain technology by companies and courts? Based on these questions, I interviewed the deputy director of Zhongjing Tianping Wang Kai to reveal the things in the justice for you.

Technology drives the future of law

Zhongjing Tianping is mainly responsible for the promotion and implementation of the informationization construction of the Wisdom Court and the development of technology. "Technology drives the future of law" is the slogan of the balance of the Chinese economy. According to Wang Kai:

"We are positioned as a service company for judicial informationization. The team has been engaged in the construction of the Wisdom Court since 2005." At present, the balance of the Chinese military in the judicial blockchain sector has two major businesses:

The first is the judicial electronic evidence cloud platform for enterprises, which provides customized electronic evidence storage, infringement forensics, identification and other full-process uplink services for enterprises in various industries. The access enterprises include today's headlines, fast hands, Tencent, and Chinese wills. , scanning Almighty King, Fu Fu Finance, Acfun and other well-known enterprises;

The second is the court's online blockchain e-evidence platform , which is applied to judicial informationization scenarios such as electronic evidence verification, online mediation, online filing, and judges' mobile office. It has been connected to all levels of courts in 12 provinces across the country, including Tianjin. Higher People's Courts such as Jilin Province, Jiangxi Province, Guangxi Province, Shandong Province, Henan Province, Hangzhou Internet Court, and Yidu Internet Court.

Calling a lawsuit is to fight evidence

In the case of a lawsuit, it is actually playing evidence. However, there are some challenges in judging the validity of evidence: First, how to make the collection, fixation, transmission and application of evidence more efficient? The second is how to prove the authenticity, originality, and tamper resistance of electronic evidence? The third is how to truly transform the evidence of the electronic texts produced on the Internet into valid "electronic evidence" recognized by the judiciary. The fourth is how to resolve the large amount of electronic evidence to bring the evidence to the trial judges to sort out and review the workload?

Before 2012, under the Chinese legal system, electronic data could not participate in litigation as independent evidence. The revised procedural law incorporated electronic data into legislation as a new type of evidence. However, in the actual litigation process, due to the high rate of sputum, a large amount of supporting evidence is often needed to increase its effectiveness.

"For example, we take a photo with a mobile phone, just one camera took the photo of me taking pictures with my mobile phone, and its time is synchronized with my time, and there is a third-party certificate, I saw this photo. That is It is said that many other evidences are needed to assist and bless. This electronic evidence can become a strong evidence. In reality, this is very difficult to achieve. It is necessary to be able to prove the evidence in a timely manner. I portrayed it.

The evidence-acquisition link is more complicated, and the electronic data evidence needs to be judicially identified, and the judicial appraisal requires responsibility for the sample for inspection. If you are shooting with your mobile phone, send the phone and extract the data directly. But if electronic data exists on the cloud, which agency is sent a letter? How to send inspection? Then this becomes an infinite loop.

Through the blockchain, this process is greatly simplified. The user deposits the webpage information and evidence information that he wants to collect into the electronic evidence platform based on the blockchain. The system intelligently collects and solidifies the task, and synchronizes relevant information to the national time-granting center, judicial identification center and judicial district. The blockchain alliance performs the guarantee and provides the basis for subsequent verification.

How much is the company willing to pay for the deposit?

However, we know that depositing evidence is actually a pre-existing behavior. Before a judicial dispute occurs, enterprises must deposit a large amount of data. Why do they have to do it through the blockchain? What is the driving force for accessing the judicial electronic evidence cloud platform? What is the willingness to invest in this area?

“When we communicated with the company in the early days, we understood how they saved the evidence. Some of them were in the document and thought it could be used as evidence. But such evidence, if the other party’s question is forged, or requires reappearance, the difficulty It will become very big."

"And many companies don't understand the judicial process, thinking that the judicial service is docked, the notary office is over, and then the lawyers are going on. This is the most misunderstood we have heard." Therefore, what the judicial electronic evidence cloud platform has to do is to solidify the evidence as it is just generated. And in the process of evidence transfer, until the court trial, the sample is guaranteed to be unmodified. Specifically, it is divided into several dimensions: time dimension, tamper-resistant dimension, and identity dimension. In fact, it is 3 W, who? At what time? What have you done? However, electronic evidence requires the security of the entire system. There are many standards and requirements. The judicial electronic evidence cloud platform will help enterprises to sort out the requirements for generating, storing and submitting evidence.

As for how much money companies are willing to spend on this matter? Wang Kai told me that this is related to the profitability of the company, the purpose of sales, and the way of doing business. When he has strong judicial needs, he is willing to spend more in this part, and the investment depends on the return.

“For example, a photo company, with an annual loss of 3 billion due to infringement, can recover at least 1 billion yuan after investing in an electronic evidence system, then he may be willing to spend 500 million to do it. There are also some companies, their own The profit model is more prone to disputes and is a strong judicial scene. For example, a will, a third party helps the elderly to sort out the family property and establish a true and effective will, but if the data is lost, it will be a fatal blow. Therefore, the company believes that regardless of the investment How much is responsible for ensuring the validity of this evidence store."

What is the court's attitude towards the blockchain?

It can be seen at present that justice may be the most direct landing scene of the blockchain in the industrial sector. In June of this year, the Supreme Law Information Center took the lead in issuing the White Paper on the Application of Blockchain Judicial Deposits , and the Jilin High Court, Tianjin High Court, Shandong High Court, Qinghai High Court, Zhengzhou Intermediate People's Court, Sichuan Yidu Court, Beijing, The three Internet courts in Hangzhou and Guangzhou all launched an electronic evidence platform based on blockchain. The Jingping balance also designed a judicial alliance chain suitable for judicial scenes, including judicial nodes, authoritative government nodes, and enterprise nodes. The entire ecology is very rich. .

With the deepening of understanding, the court is now more accepting, exploring and constantly innovating the blockchain. Therefore, since August last year, 12 blockchain nodes at all levels of the province have been built.

Blockchain technology has the advantage of tamper resistance and traceability, and has a natural fit with the judiciary. These two key characteristics have strong correlation properties in the judicial scene. When the original defendant filed a lawsuit, it was already after the court, how did the court judge the evidence?

The first is to trace the moment when the evidence is produced; the second is whether the consumption of time and transmission is not falsified after the evidence is produced.

"Why are you?" I asked Wang Kai.

He admits that Zhongjing Tianping is not the only company in the industry that recommends blockchain technology to the judicial system. "Based on the background of serving the judicial information, we understand the needs of the courts and are familiar with their specific case handling procedures; We also know the limitations of the blockchain, and many blockchain companies have deified their role."

Wang Kai believes that what the blockchain can do is to prevent tampering in evidence transmission and to close the desensitization and reopening in privacy protection. Moreover, after using the blockchain-based system, the court will not increase the number of cases, but will reduce the number of cases. Because in the case of clear evidence and clear responsibilities, many courts have mediate before, and some courts can even reach a mediation rate of more than 50%.

Certainly don’t make money, definitely worth

Judicial demand for blockchain technology is unquestionable, but are these companies that provide blockchain technology profitable? I think this is a big question. It is conceivable that such a large amount of data storage is a huge cost. Unexpectedly, Wang Kai’s answer was more frank, he said:

"Definitely don't make money, now do blockchain which earns money? No one makes money." "But there is no value? Certainly valuable."

Wang Kai believes that doing this is more about the future. They see a lot of judicial resources being wasted, and a large number of enterprises lack effective ways to connect with the judiciary.

Before the interview, I always had a question about the necessity of these electronic evidence platforms. I am wondering, wouldn't it be better if I recorded an important electronic data directly in Ethereum through a transaction? Does the court not recognize the validity of the evidence?

But Wang Kai told me that the judge will not have any attitude towards this. This is an evidence. The quality of the two sides is the most important. If the other lawyers agree, it will be effective. If the other lawyer's evidence is invalid, then it is necessary to provide a report of the blockchain's testing agency to prove the safety level of Ethereum.

On the other hand, the legality of electronic evidence requires the legitimacy of the use of tools. “Is Ethereum legal? Who will issue its qualification report?” Wang Kai asked me. The legality of evidence mentioned here includes four aspects: the legality of the subject of evidence collection, the legality of the form of evidence, the legality of the procedure for obtaining evidence, and the legality of the preservation and use of evidence.

Under such a requirement, the deposit certificate system needs to review the operation body of the blockchain node; it needs to perform real-name authentication for the identity of the certificate-issuing initiator and make the identity risk warning of the initiator; the forensic tool certified by the credibility agency should be used, or Standardized and institutionalized forensics through the full-time staff of the electronic data appraisal agency; the electronic data stored should be verified and traced, and the evidence can be retrospectively verified through the court's electronic evidence platform, forensic appraisal or other judicially effective means. .

Technology is credible and still needs central credibility

This made me find a paradox : the blockchain actually provides a kind of technical credibility, and hopes to be credible through the technical credible alternative center, but when it is actually applied to the judicial scene, it still inevitably resorts to the center. letter.

Wang Kai told me that the most important thing when choosing a depository platform is what qualifications it can provide. Electronic evidence must be traceable. Also, where does the time dimension come from, and who will help me provide relevant evidence? Can you issue a relevant report? Can you issue relevant qualification certificates, can you verify the relevant data on the relevant website? These are all important.

Among them, what impressed me the most is the “National Time Service Center”. We all know that the concept of “time stamp” on the blockchain can confirm the timeliness of the transaction. But in judicial trials, two-way time is required. What does that mean? For electronic evidence, the time it takes is very important. For example, when the event occurs, the screenshots are saved through the computer, mobile phone, and system background. The above shows 4:00. This is only a one-way time. How can I prove that this time has not been artificially adjusted?

The “National Time Service Center” is a standard time-timed institution in China. The source time is a traceable source query, which can query the time and trace the time source. It can be seen that even in such a simple matter, we still cannot do without a centralized organization. The Zhongjing Tianping Judicial Electronic Evidence Cloud Platform and the National Time Service Center have been opened. You can check the evidence collection and evidence collection time on the platform of the National Time Service Center.

Regarding the future prediction and planning, Wang Kai said that there are more than 3,500 courts across the country, which will be gradually promoted after piloting in various provinces. What Zhongping Tianping has to do is paving the way and opening up the judicial channel for the entire electronic evidence, and this road is just getting started.

Wang Kai believes that what is being done now is to hope that all industries need to cooperate with the electronic evidence platform services to form a benign ecology, and to open up and shorten the last mile of the service for the people. The future judicial convenience will be further intelligent. Pre-trial, through the jurisprudence of the big data and mediation platform to resolve the case to truly achieve innocent governance on the Internet.

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